S1:E2 "Grafted In"

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign. [00:00:14] Speaker B: Good morning, afternoon, evening, wherever you're listening to this, it's evening for us right now. And welcome to the Gathering House Host Script Podcast. I'm Brad Stewart. I have Joe Olinger and Phil Campbell with me. How are you guys, man? [00:00:33] Speaker A: Blessed brother. How you guys doing? [00:00:34] Speaker C: Terrific. [00:00:35] Speaker A: Great. [00:00:35] Speaker C: Terrific. [00:00:36] Speaker B: Blessed and highly favored, baby. Yeah. That's how we do it. [00:00:39] Speaker C: That's it. That's it. [00:00:40] Speaker A: I'm God's favorite. And here's the thing, you are, too. [00:00:43] Speaker B: That's right, we are. If you're just kind of catching up with us, we are pastors. Well, Joe and I are pastors and Phil is the worship leader at the Gathering House Church in Royal Oak. [00:00:55] Speaker A: Worship. [00:00:57] Speaker B: And there you go. And we are just round table discussing our Sunday morning sermon topics. We, instead of streaming our services, we just decided to take those passages that we are deep diving into right now. We're in the book of Ephesians and we're round table discussing them. So it's pretty exciting stuff. But also things that are coming up because obviously this is episode two that we have ever done. So we have, we have no idea what we're doing. Spoiler alert. But we're figuring it out. And one of the things that we have coming up is like ministry highlights. We're going to be doing some of that as we go. Just Saturday night, actually, this is, this is Monday when we're recording it, but Saturday night we had an awesome worship service that Phil led at the church. And we have all kinds of good stuff coming up. There's women's ministry and men's ministry and mission stuff, and we have a great kids ministry. So we have all kinds of ministry highlights at the church. And then we also want to feature some stuff that's outside of those walls as well. So stay tuned for future episodes for that kind of stuff. And you never know, we might have some guests on as well. So that's exciting. And as always, I say, as always, as the one other time that we've done this, we want to encourage people to leave questions or comments wherever you see these videos or you can email them to us at infohegatheringhouse Church because we would love to know just how things are landing and what questions you have. And we, you know, they can be related to this that could not be related to this. But we love to take on questions or comments and just do those kinds of things. So that's our housekeeping. Before we get started, I'd love to dive into some prayer. And then we're continuing our study through Ephesians. So let's start off with prayer. I'll kick this off. Sounds good. Lord, thank you for tonight. And thank you for these brothers that I get to. To just do life with, do ministry with God. Thank you for the opportunity to dive into the scriptures and. And try to learn more about who you are. Speak to us, get us out of the way. Lord, we just want you to be glorified. We love you. We praise you and pray this in Jesus name. [00:03:36] Speaker C: Amen. [00:03:37] Speaker B: All right, Phil, here we go. You want to kick us off with reading this passage? [00:03:43] Speaker C: Yeah, right on. [00:03:44] Speaker B: We're in Ephesians, chapter 1, 11, 14. [00:03:49] Speaker C: Furthermore, because we are united with Christ, we have received an inheritance from God, for He chose us in advance, and he makes everything work out according to his plan. God's purpose was that we Jews were first or were the first. To trust in Christ would bring praise and glory to God. Now you Gentiles have also heard the truth, the good news that God saves you. And when you believe in Christ, he identified you as his own by giving you the Holy Spirit, whom He promised long ago. The Spirit is God's guarantee that he will give us the inheritance he promised and that he has purchased us to be his own people. He did this so we would praise and glorify Him. [00:04:37] Speaker B: There it is, man. That's nlt. Correct. [00:04:41] Speaker C: That is nlt, Dude, I just want to remind everybody. [00:04:44] Speaker A: I love Phil's version, man. He just. It just lays it out right there. I think I mentioned this. Wrote it myself, like, literally, man. That could have saved a lot of studying over the years just reading version, so. I appreciate that, Bill. [00:05:00] Speaker B: For what it's worth, you might hear some different versions. [00:05:02] Speaker A: Yes. [00:05:03] Speaker B: Yeah, for sure. Fly around here. [00:05:05] Speaker A: Mine's the right one. Just take that. [00:05:08] Speaker B: Just so we don't. Don't get freaked out. We're not reading out anything crazy. We just all. We. All the versions that we use, they're the same, you know, in essence. So it's manuscript. [00:05:21] Speaker C: It's all context. Absolutely. [00:05:26] Speaker A: You know, you know, when Brad, you know, was kind of heading up the last podcast, you know, he was kind of giving us this picture of some of the history and the, you know, position of the. The people of Ephesus and. And, you know, something that I love about this, and I know we've talked about this a lot, but, like, you know, even the structure of the books are so, so vital. I mean, I know when I first started into ministry, man, my whole thing was, okay, I'm just gonna condemn people, you know, Telling them to stop. Turn to Jesus and stop being a dirty person. You know what I mean? [00:06:05] Speaker B: That's right. You gotta condemn them to heaven, baby. [00:06:08] Speaker A: Right. That was kind of my philosophy. But when I started studying the book of Ephesians, man, I'm telling you, the book of Ephesians can be really broken up into two categories. Right. You know, you have the first three chapters, that's all about the relationship. It's all about the reconciliation between man and God. And then the last section or the last three chapters, it's really all about behavior and how believers can conduct themselves. And I really took that as a model, you know, when I first started in the middle, when I learned that lesson in ministry. [00:06:44] Speaker B: Listen, I think that that model just if. If there's like, outside of the essentials of salvation, right, because there's. There's a lot that. We said this in the last episode. There, there's essential doctrine and then there's the. The stuff that we can, you know, debate over and things like that. You know, Christ crucified and resurrected, the deity of Christ, the Trinity, you know, you know, salvation by grace through faith and. And Christ being the only door to salvation, though. That's essential doctrine stuff. Right. But there's all this other. All this other minor stuff and, and what we see today, at least I see a lot of it today, where we are splitting churches and splitting denominations and ripping the church body apart and even. Even causing so much grief to people who are. Who are not believers and, and kind of being a hindrance to the gospel. [00:07:39] Speaker C: Yeah. Getting in the way. [00:07:41] Speaker B: Because we flip the behaviors and the condition of the heart thing. [00:07:46] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:07:47] Speaker B: We're so quick to condemn an action that may be oftentimes, you know, like the. The scriptures are clear on. On how God feels about that action. But. Right. If you don't have the basis of the gospel first and the condition of the heart first, who cares anyway? [00:08:06] Speaker A: They don't have a standard until they're introduced to Christ. [00:08:09] Speaker B: Bingo. [00:08:10] Speaker A: You know, they have the. They've not submitted to Christ and they've not submitted to his authority. And it's like. You're absolutely right. I think that we. We really focus on the behavioral thing. Expecting people who are worldly to follow the things of God and they haven't. There's just no way without the Holy Spirit. Like you were saying before. [00:08:30] Speaker B: Yeah, but you're in. Go ahead, Phil. [00:08:33] Speaker C: You have all that inner fighting too. You know, it's. It's a shame when a. When a church gets split and then. And then what kind of example is that? [00:08:41] Speaker A: Right. [00:08:41] Speaker C: Especially something that's not, doesn't matter. [00:08:43] Speaker B: Even scripture tells us about that, that, that the unity of the church ends up being a testimony to the world of who God is. [00:08:53] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:08:54] Speaker B: So when, when we allow, you know, these things to, to separate us, it's, it's so dangerous. [00:09:02] Speaker A: I don't want to be a part of that, I think. Right, right amongst themselves, you know. [00:09:06] Speaker B: Yeah. And, and look, actions are important. I don't, I don't want to take anything, you know, sin is sin and we'll never, we'll never not call it what it is. You know what I mean? But the, but the thing is, is like when, you know, when Jesus came, it was while we were still sinners that Christ died for us. And then as we get saved as, as God gets a hold of us and then we go through what we call the progressive sanctification process, which is, which is just a really fancy churchy way of saying that I should, my, my life should more look more like Christ tomorrow than it does today. We start to, our behaviors start to change because of what happened inwardly, the transformation that happened inwardly. And the outward will reflect that. And that's why I love, I'm so glad you brought that up because I love that about what Paul does very intentionally, when we see the book of Ephesians in the first half dealing with the relationship with the condition of the heart stuff, he's laying a foundation. And then you can take that foundation because scripture says right, there's no other foundation that can be laid other than Christ. Then we can build on that foundation with the transformation of what our actions look like. So I love that you brought that up. [00:10:32] Speaker A: Yeah, it's awesome. And you know, another thing too, talking about foundation. Christ is our foundation. But in our studies, I think it's also important, especially when you're tackling a book like Ephesians is. I encourage people to go back to the book of Acts and read through the mission trip. Like read through the mission where Paul went to Ephesus first. [00:10:53] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:10:53] Speaker A: Like in. [00:10:54] Speaker B: Puts it in context, doesn't it? [00:10:55] Speaker A: Yes, dude. It just lights it up for you and you have a little bit. Because what you have. And we'll eventually get to these, these passages here. But, but my thought is like really when you look at the epistles especially you have a one, really a one sided conversation. It's like hearing a phone call. But when you look at the actual mission trip, it kind of like you kind of get a little bit more of a sneak Peek. Of what was being said on the other side of that phone call, you. [00:11:24] Speaker B: Know, and, you know, not to take anything away from that. Excuse me, guys. But the. You can often get a pretty good indication if, you know, I'm. Listen, I'm. I've been in the car with my wife, or she's in the other room, and based on how that conversation goes, I'm like, I've got a pretty good idea who she's talking to and how that conversation's going, either good or bad or whatever that looks like. But I'll tell you what I love about how the scriptures cross references. There have been times where I think I know what's going on in that phone call, right? And I'm like, oh, my gosh, did this happen? And she's like, no, you completely missed on the context of our conversation. And so I. I think it's a. I think you bring up a great point that going to acts especially and. And even outside of church text, taking the time to understand a little bit about who Ephesus is, you know, what the city was and what the church was and what was going on at the time, and putting context to it can paint the picture of who, what, when, where, why, and give a little dimension. [00:12:40] Speaker A: Okay, you're bad. I've already told you, you're bad. You're so bad. You know, he's talking about Corinthians, right? But if he says, oh, yeah, you're amazing. I love you so much. Well, it's Philippians, right? [00:12:49] Speaker B: Right? [00:12:50] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, it's so amazing, you know? [00:12:52] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, that's. [00:12:54] Speaker A: That's kind of funny you bring that up. But, you know, I think that is important. But getting into the text tonight, I think it's funny because we had mentioned this as well. You know, even in the last podcast, we talked about predestination and election and free will. And I think when people, like in this verse or these verses here, when people see the word predestined, usually one of two things happen. They're like, you know, people who support the idea that God elected a certain few, you, that he only died for and sorry, the rest of you were born kind of thing, you know, that they look at that and they're like, okay, this is more firepower that I have. And then other people tend to, like, look at that. And they're like, well, I don't believe in that. You know, all I know is I don't believe in that. I don't really necessarily want to study it out. So I think a Part of what we're doing here, too, is to encourage people to not be afraid of scripture, to jump in there, those questions like we're going to be talking about tonight. It's okay to have these conversations because it really helps us spiritually to, to take all that we believe, the things that, you know, I grew up believing that, you know, later on I felt wasn't necessarily biblical. I was, I was willing to take that and bash it all against scripture and whatever remains, man. [00:14:17] Speaker B: That's. Yeah. [00:14:18] Speaker A: Take the means. [00:14:19] Speaker B: I'm still going through it. [00:14:20] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:14:20] Speaker B: I, you know, obviously we haven't really gotten into our stories on here yet, but, you know, I was 17 years old when God got ahold of me. And when God first got ahold of me, my doctrine was about as bad as it gets outside of the essentials. You know, I, I knew Christ crucified and resurrected and was the way to sell, you know, the door to salvation. Outside of that, I think I got everything else wrong. But I love, I love what you're talking about here because we can weaponize scripture even. You know, so you're using a trigger word like this, like predestination. Right. And there are people that want to use this as, As a weapon against other people in the church. And, and it's not, it's not meant to be weaponized. Not at all, you know, against your brother. And on the other side of it, too, which is really important, is being able to take something that doesn't rub the way that you want it to and, and have the willingness to kind of break down your own ego. Yeah. And remove yourself from. From the position of God. Because really, if you're going to say, hey, this scripture is wrong, well, then you've placed yourself above the author. And, and so I think it's important that we just take it in context and chew on it and understand what he's trying to say. And, and it. So what. What can happen here is. Well, one of two things. Either a, it will affirm something that you believe, or it will change something you believe. But it has to be based on this in context within the totality of Scripture. You know what I mean? You can take an idea, and I don't want to get too far down this rabbit. I mean, we got the rabbits all night. I just, you know, we rabbit hunt. [00:16:25] Speaker A: All the time, so. [00:16:26] Speaker B: All the time. And, and we, we could on this, you know, because I'm passionate about this, this idea, but we got to make sure that we. It lines up with the totality of Scripture. [00:16:36] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:16:38] Speaker B: So, yeah. Good. Good stuff. [00:16:40] Speaker A: Yeah, man. So. [00:16:42] Speaker B: So, Joe, you, you led this, you preached this sermon on Sunday on Ephesians 1:11 to 14. So I'd love for you to kind of lead. [00:16:54] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:16:55] Speaker B: Through this passage with us. [00:16:57] Speaker A: It took me just as long to get started too. [00:16:59] Speaker B: So that's how Sunday mornings go. If you, if you go to our church, you already know. [00:17:05] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:17:05] Speaker C: So I've been reading so many footnotes in my Bible on this, it's like. [00:17:09] Speaker A: Right. [00:17:10] Speaker C: I don't even know what it means anymore. [00:17:13] Speaker A: So. [00:17:14] Speaker C: Because there's the elect, there's the predestined, you know. [00:17:17] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. It's, there's a lot to it. It's a big. That's a big topic. [00:17:21] Speaker A: It is, man. And really we could just continue talking about it. And I mean, it can be very overwhelming. [00:17:27] Speaker B: I mean, for I. At least for now, like, I love where we landed last week, that I see the sovereignty of God that exists holy. Right. [00:17:42] Speaker A: Right. [00:17:42] Speaker B: And, and inside his sovereignty. The scriptures to me, point to some element of choice. [00:17:49] Speaker A: Yes. [00:17:50] Speaker B: For us and responsibility for us. And so certainly, you know, does election exist in scripture? It sure does. Does choice exist in scripture? It sure does. And what percentage of what belongs to God and what percentage is us? I would say it far out. Grading out, you know, out. I don't know what the word is that I even was trying to, to, to find there, but, but I would say that God has, first of all, he completed all the work. We, we can't take credit for any of it, you know, but, but what percentage of choice we have in it, that's all God's anyway. It's not up to us. So the mechanics of salvation. I'm good with leaving to God and I'm, I'm, I'm content with that. And, and you know, God shows something else along the way. I'm fine with that too. [00:18:46] Speaker C: So he said it kind of left. [00:18:47] Speaker B: It off last week. [00:18:48] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:18:49] Speaker C: Even he said it was a mystery. [00:18:51] Speaker B: It is. [00:18:51] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. [00:18:53] Speaker B: Yeah. Phil, you sent me that, that text the other day, so 100%. [00:18:58] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:18:59] Speaker B: This, this goes deeper. This passage obviously goes deeper than just the predestination and rehashing that all over again. There's a whole other element. [00:19:07] Speaker A: Yes. [00:19:07] Speaker B: That's inside of this. [00:19:09] Speaker A: It's huge. Actually. There's, there's a lot here, but kind of what I want to look at, starting at verse 11. Phil, can you actually read verse 11 and 12? I like your version. [00:19:22] Speaker C: Oh, I was going to throw you off and do the new king James Version. I was going to really get on you there. Oh, it was going to be fun. All right, you said 11. 11 is 12. All right, let me get back up there. Furthermore, because we are united with Christ, we have received an inheritance from God, for He chose us in advance and he makes everything work out according to his plan. God's purpose was that we Jews were the first to trust in Christ would bring praise and glory to God. [00:19:54] Speaker A: Now I really believe, you know, like we've been saying, the, the difference, that wording is just as important. You know, as well as, you know, the, the order in which Scripture is, you know. And so Paul here, he says, he answers a question. He was saying, first of all, in him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works, everything in conformity to the purpose of his will. Now who is he talking about? He says we. He defines we as we Jews who were the first to put our hope in Christ. And so I love, I love the, the, the transitioning here. Paul first starts with the Jews, right? He says we Jews who were the first to put our hope in Christ, and then that now that predestined meaning that God chose Israel as his people. So Israel being His chosen people, why did he choose Israel? We, we don't know. He's God. Sovereignty, election. [00:21:05] Speaker C: Yeah, we talked about that, right? Yep, yep. [00:21:08] Speaker A: And so we see that the, the Jew is first. And we see that even in salvation, because why? Because Christ came through the bloodline of the Jews, right? And so, so we have Christ coming through the Jews. Salvation came to the Jew first. Romans 1:16. And so now Paul kind of transition, and he says this, he says, you were also included. Now he's speaking to the Gentiles. So it started out just Jews, we Jews. Now he's transitioning to the Gentiles who were marked in him with the seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance. So now he goes from Jew to Gentile to Jew and Gentile together. And in this group, and this is exactly what Christ was talking about in John 10 when he said, I am the good shepherd, right? I know my sheep, and my sheep know me, just as the Father knows me. And I know the Father. And I lay down my life for my sheep. I have other sheep that are not of this pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice. And there shall be one flock and one shepherd. So now we see this, this reconciliation between two groups that didn't get along. The Jews had Nothing to do with the Gentiles, the Samaritans, you know, they were considered unclean. And so God reconciled these two groups together, but not only that, because of what Christ did up on the cross, reconciled all of humanity to God through what he did upon the cross. Cross making the two groups one. So now there is one flock again and one shepherd. And so with that thought in mind, I've got kind of a question that I think has been. It's actually been highly debated. I'm actually shocked that it was so debatable. I mean, we see this beautiful transition of reconciliation. Everything but. But being that Jew or Gentiles have been graduated, grafted in with the Jews, and there's one group. Do you believe that we are now biblical Israel and. Or do we just kind of get the perks of the promise because of what Christ did upon the cross? What's your thoughts? [00:23:34] Speaker B: Big question. What do you think there, Phil? [00:23:37] Speaker C: Do we actually become Israel? [00:23:39] Speaker B: Yes. [00:23:40] Speaker A: Do we become Israel? Like, almost, in a sense. Do we. [00:23:46] Speaker C: I get you. [00:23:47] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:23:47] Speaker C: It's almost rhetorical when I said that. [00:23:49] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean. I mean, so just so we're on the same page here, we're not talking about biologically. [00:23:54] Speaker A: No, no, no. [00:23:55] Speaker B: There is. [00:23:56] Speaker A: There is spiritual Israel, like. [00:23:58] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:23:58] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:23:58] Speaker B: I mean, there is a. There is a genealogical line of Israel, and obviously you don't. [00:24:04] Speaker A: Right. You don't become, like, the nation Israel. [00:24:09] Speaker B: But. But biblically or. Or spiritually speaking. [00:24:13] Speaker A: So in other words, when. When the Bible talks about Israel, even when praying for Israel, you know, is that really a picture of just praying for the church? Is. Is it talking about, you know, just the Gentiles included into this? [00:24:31] Speaker C: This Jew can't be. What can it be? We. He says our. He says Jews, and then he says Gentiles, and then he says our. So we're all. We're all one church. [00:24:42] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:24:42] Speaker C: Right. No matter what your genealogy is, your background, your. [00:24:47] Speaker B: I got to tell you, the first two scriptures that come to mind are John, chapter one, verse 12. Right, right. But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name. So these are believers. He gave the right to become children of God. Right. So. So these. They have been grafted in, and they. They become children of God. And. And the second one, which I think really seals the deal on this is in Galatians 3. Yes. When you look at, you know, verse 28 and 29, it says, there is neither Jew nor Greek. There is neither slave nor free. There is no male or female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. Right here. If you are Christ, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise. So I think that there's a strong argument that the church today, because even scripture says that not all who are. [00:25:49] Speaker A: Descendants of Israel are Israel. [00:25:51] Speaker B: Right, that's right. That's right. So, so yeah, I mean just the idea that, you know, if you are, are Christ, then you are Abraham's offspring. I think there's a strong. [00:26:04] Speaker A: Let's actually go there in, in Romans 9, because I happen to have that one conveniently in front of me. You know, I already had that one pulled up. [00:26:13] Speaker B: All right, good. [00:26:14] Speaker A: So he says it's not as though God, God's word has felt. Now this is Romans 9:6 through 8, I believe. For not all who are descended, are descended from Israel are Israel, nor because they are his descendants, are they all Abraham's children. On the contrary, it's through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned. In other words, it is not the children of physical descent who are God's children, but it's the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's offspring. So I think that's, that's. [00:26:50] Speaker B: Yeah, we become children of promise. And you look, God has always been more about condition of the heart than he ever was a bloodline, you know, like the bloodline obviously was important. And there was a promise, right, that, that God made to Abraham and, and that promise, I mean even, even that promise in and of itself was that all the nations, all nations would be blessed through Abraham's, you know, through Abraham's bloodline, which, that's where Christ came through and, and blessed all nations. [00:27:27] Speaker C: So that's if that's the thing. Right. So in this verse, the good news that God saves you and when you believed in Christ, he identified you and as his own. [00:27:38] Speaker B: Yes, right, right, right. I think the, I think by the Holy Spirit. I agree. I think the important thing though to really, because I always go back and I, if I see something that God is doing in the New Testament, I'm a firm believer that God is unchanging. Right. That he is the same God yesterday, today and tomorrow. People, you know, how, how often have you heard, well, you know, God was like super wrathful in the Old Testament now he's like lovey dovey and you know, feels good now. And like, you know, you look in at wrath and mercy were always married together in the Old Testament. And wrath and mercy are still married together now. [00:28:24] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:28:25] Speaker B: You know, I don't know if you've read the end of the book, but you know, yeah, there's a lot, right. So God is. In my mind, God is unchanging. And so it doesn't seem to me that you had this favored bloodline. And then God's like, ah, you know what? I've decided to change my mind. And I'm gonna let everybody. I've decided to change the game, and now everybody is gonna be allowed in. So I always kind of go. When we talk about something like this, I always like to go back to the Old Testament and be like, okay, so the New Testament seems to obviously points to the fact that Gentiles have been grafted in to Israel, right? Have they been. They've been grafted into Abraham's promise. They have been grafted in to become children of God. Do we see that in the Old Testament? And I think that the answer is overwhelmingly yes. Right. Obviously, starting with God's promise to Abraham in Genesis 12 that he would bless, that all the families of the earth will be. Will be blessed through Abraham. Right? But Also in Isaiah 49, verse 6, it says, he says, it is too light a thing, that you should be my servant to the tribes of Jacob, and. And to bring back the persevered of Israel. Gosh, I can't read in this light. Sorry, guys. I will make you as a light for the nations that my salvation meet may reach the end of the earth. Wow. [00:30:14] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:30:15] Speaker B: So even going back into Isaiah 49, he's already talking about his salvation reaching the end of the earth. And then to go on even further, in Isaiah 56, 3 through 8, it's A. It's a long read relatively, but it's. It says, let not the foreigner who has joined himself to the Lord. So you have a foreigner who has joined himself to the Lord. He's already offered opportunity for the foreigner to even have that as an option. Right? Let not the foreigner has joined himself to the Lord. Say, the Lord will surely separate me from his people, saying, don't. Don't. Let the foreigner say that you're going to be separate from my people. And let not the eunuch say, behold, I'm a dry tree. For thus says the Lord to the eunuchs who keep my sabbaths, who choose the things that please me, and hold fast to my covenant. I will in my house and within my walls a monument and a name better than the sons and daughters. I will give them an everlasting name that shall not be cut off. And the foreigners in verse six, here. And the foreigners who join themselves to the Lord to minister to him, to love the name of the Lord and to be his servants. Everyone who keeps a Sabbath and does not profane it and hold fast to my covenant, which he's talking about like they're already God's people are already in covenant with Abraham, right? And they. So. So here's a foreigner who is holding fast to that covenant. These I will bring to my holy mountain and make them joyful in my house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices will be accepted on my altar. For my house shall be called a house of prayer for all people. So God has always, always made it about those people that love him and have covenant with him. [00:32:18] Speaker A: Now, in chapter 11 of Romans, this is reminded me of this passage when you were reading in certain sections, Paul says, again I asked, did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Speaking about Israel, not at all. Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make the Israel, to make Israel envious. But if their transgression means riches for the world and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their full inclusion bring? Now, dude, this whole section over here, I was reading it today, dude. It was just like making me shake. I am talking to you Gentiles. In so much as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I take pride in my ministry in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them. For if their rejection brought reconciliation to the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? If the part of the dough offered as first fruits is holy, then the whole batch is holy. If the root is holy, so are the branches. Now listen to this. If some of the branches have been broken off, right? And you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishment SAP from the olive root, do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. If you do consider this, you do not support the root. The root supports you, right? You will say, then branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in. Granted, but they were broken off because of unbelief. And you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either. [00:34:21] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:34:22] Speaker C: How about this one too? [00:34:23] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:34:23] Speaker C: Can I. Can I throw this in there? Since. Since Israel is referred to as the branches, right? As well as the church, right? So what I'm getting in. If you're a branch that's been grafted in to your question, yes, you Are Israel. [00:34:42] Speaker B: Yeah. I think it's absolutely. Strong argument. I love. Yeah, Joe, I love that. That passage, and I love that there's a warning on both sides. Yes. Whether you have been the one who's been grafted in or the one who kind of came through, you know, the. The Israel line. And. And obviously he's talking about messianic Jews and Gentiles here. But there's a warning on both sides because there can be arrogance on both sides. There's one that's, you know, like, hey, you know, this is my vine. And I was like, no. And then there's. The other side is like, well, I was so cool. He decided to graft the end. And that's not the case either. It's all for his glory, not out for us. So. [00:35:34] Speaker A: And I think where maybe we land is that we are drafted in as a type of spiritual Israel because we're the heirs of promise. [00:35:45] Speaker B: Right. [00:35:46] Speaker A: But then there's a difference between that and ethnic Israel. You know, you have certain things that are still going to apply to Israel in the last days. You know, we know that Christ is coming back to Jerusalem and establishing his kingdom in Jerusalem. That's significant, right? [00:36:02] Speaker C: Yes. [00:36:02] Speaker A: And so Israel that we. I think we. We all kind of land at the same spot. Then, you know, there's. [00:36:09] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:36:10] Speaker A: Spiritual Israel, which we, you know, are heirs according to the promise. And then there's ethnic Israel that plays a significant role in the end times. And. And of course, you can also get into, you know, the ceremonial law, which, you know, a lot pertains to Israel specifically. So, I mean, it's. That's kind of where I land, too. But it was just shocking to me when I was digging into this and hearing some arguments that there's so many different people used. And these are like, these are arguments that divide churches, guys. [00:36:40] Speaker B: Yeah, That's. That's what's ridiculous. [00:36:44] Speaker C: Yeah. It's frustrating, you know, because there's one message, one gospel, one salvation. [00:36:50] Speaker B: That's it. [00:36:50] Speaker A: Let's keep the main thing. [00:36:51] Speaker B: The main thing. [00:36:52] Speaker A: Right. [00:36:53] Speaker C: Yeah. Again, why would you argue that to split up a church. [00:36:56] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:36:57] Speaker C: When you're missing the main point. [00:36:58] Speaker B: Right. [00:36:59] Speaker C: You know. [00:36:59] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, I think people get hung up on the word Israel. Yes. And. And when really all it is is that we are. When we are in Christ, we. We become children of God and we become heirs to Abraham's promise. That's it. [00:37:16] Speaker A: We go to heaven and we. We're able to be grafted in because of his love and grace, man. [00:37:22] Speaker B: I mean, why there's no reason to be arrogant about it because it should. [00:37:25] Speaker A: Actually do the opposite. [00:37:27] Speaker B: I know everybody's welcome. I mean, just welcome. God knows us and. [00:37:34] Speaker A: But the thing is, I think that where we need to get as a whole, the church is we need to learn society. I mean, we see it everywhere, but it's like we need to learn to disagree and still be friends. You know what I mean? That's, you know, even in the church, we need to like, hey, let's agree to disagree on certain topics, but like you said, let's keep the essentials. The essentials and the non essentials. Hey, we could have fun conversations about those because the reality there's, there's topics in scripture that we're truly not going to know fully until Christ comes back. Because technically, I mean, I mean, really, there's good arguments on, on either side of certain views and. [00:38:15] Speaker B: Right. [00:38:15] Speaker A: That's okay, you know. [00:38:18] Speaker B: Yeah. And look, you know, kind of like we said in the last podcast, if we could understand everything, then we'd be God. [00:38:23] Speaker C: Right. [00:38:24] Speaker B: You know, we're fallible and he's. His ways are still much higher than ours. [00:38:30] Speaker C: And if you could figure it out that easy. [00:38:32] Speaker B: Yeah, there'd be nothing. [00:38:34] Speaker C: And you're not going to figure out God. [00:38:36] Speaker B: No. [00:38:36] Speaker C: You got to trust in him. He says, trust me, man. I got this. Right? [00:38:40] Speaker B: Yep. [00:38:40] Speaker C: And if you don't trust him. [00:38:42] Speaker B: Right. It's so good. [00:38:43] Speaker A: So now you guys ready for another fun question? This one. [00:38:47] Speaker B: Yeah, let's take it off. [00:38:48] Speaker A: Is one of those questions. Actually was a part of a church years ago that was involved in kind of a split because of this question. And, and it's, it's sad to me. It breaks my heart because it's not. I mean, the reality is I'm thankful to be saved. And I think if, if we are blood bought by Christ and we've accepted him, man, that's, that's more than enough mean we shouldn't. But in this, in this Next, these next two verses, I'm gonna, I'm gonna go ahead and read 13 and 14. And you were also included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation, when you believed you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance into the redemption of those who are God's possession, to the praise of his glory. Now, this verse has been used quite a bit to preach this doctrine. People call it once in grace, always in grace. Right? That you can't lose your salvation. And people there's no medium part to this argument. You're either like, extremely like, okay, yeah, you can lose your salvation completely lose it or you can't lose it. And the ones who say, taking this passage that you can't lose it, they'll even use the argument that, you know, nothing can snatch you out of his hand. That includes yourself, you know, right away that tells me then God has to violate your will. Right. But here's the thing. So do you believe that you can lose your salvation, or let me put it this way, or forfeit your salvation? Because I think there's a very big difference between losing and forfeiting. [00:40:50] Speaker B: Yeah, well, I mean, I guess first of all, you got to. You have to take on each one of those separately. [00:40:54] Speaker A: Yes. [00:40:54] Speaker B: Because I think that the idea of losing your salvation, at least for me, gives the implication that you could work your way out of it. And salvation is not works based, it's by grace through faith plus nothing, minus nothing, based on what Christ did on the cross. So, I mean, you kind of referenced it already, the, the John 10 scripture. You know, that my sheep hear my voice and I know them and they follow me. I give them eternal life and they will never, they will never perish and no one will snatch them out of my hand. I mean, that's definitely in there. I don't, I don't think that there's anything externally that could ever remove you out of God's hand. You know, the enemy can't snatch you out of it. You can't work your way out of it. And works are important. But, but I don't think it's a salvation thing, you know, And I also go back to John, chapter 6, verse, verse 37, when it says that all that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me, I will never cast out. So, so if the Father, you know, gives someone and you know, that person is saved, you know, says, I will never cast out for it's. I think that there is. The point being is that there is security and salvation. Right. I can't tell you the number of times that I have met with people over the last two decades that are like, man, I, you know, I love God so much, but I did this thing and it might be an atrocious act. It really could be. I mean, Joe, you and I have ministered to people in prisons and, you know, I know that we've both met people who are, wow, like, I've heard some stuff, heard some stories in there, but if, if you're saved, look I'll, I'll, I'll go as far into, into the security of salvation as to say, and I'm sure that some people will probably hate this comment, but we've talked about it before. If Hitler would have repented God. So grace is so good and God's ability to forgive is so unfathomable and his salvation is so secure that if he truly repented, which I'm not saying that he did, I'm just saying that if that happened, I believe that God's grace is sufficient to cover that. On the flip side of that, that's where I stand on the can you lose your salvation? Can you forfeit your salvation? I go back to Colossians 1. Yes, absolutely. You know, verse, verse 23. Well, I guess you got to go really. 20, 20, 21, all the way through. But yeah, so if you start at 21, it says, and you who are once alienated and hostile in mind doing evil deeds, he has now reconciled in his body of the flesh by his death, in order to present you holy and blameless and above reproach before him. Verse 23, if indeed you continue in the faith, stable and steadfast, not shifting from the hope of the gospel that you heard, which has been proclaimed in all creation under heaven and of which I, Paul, became a minister, there it is. [00:44:53] Speaker C: That's it right there. To me. If you're saved, if I can interject. [00:44:59] Speaker B: Yeah, if you're saved. [00:45:00] Speaker C: Why would you not want to be? [00:45:02] Speaker B: Look, I'm, I'm there. [00:45:03] Speaker C: At what point when do you say, you know what, Forget this. Right. I mean, I think, man, when I think of God, I don't, I don't even want to get angry at him. I might question him. [00:45:13] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:45:13] Speaker C: But you know, something doesn't go my way. I don't, I don't blame God for that. Right. [00:45:18] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:45:19] Speaker C: And I don't want to walk away from it. I mean, if you know the truth, if you truly are saved. [00:45:24] Speaker B: This is where I start to have a question mark on the forfeit part, because it says, if indeed you continue in the faith, not in your works. [00:45:32] Speaker A: Right. [00:45:33] Speaker B: All right, let's lay that out there. It's not if indeed you continue in your works, if indeed you continue in your church membership, if indeed you continue in your tithing. You know what I mean? No, it's if indeed you continue in the faith, stable and steadfast, not shifting from the hope of the gospel. [00:45:52] Speaker C: So, and I've heard that example given if you were a pastor and you're doing all this work. And then one day you retire and you don't do anything. Another thing for God. Did you lose your faith? No. Right? [00:46:05] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, and then you could go into, well, what's ministry, you know, that's all supper. You could have just effective enough ministry at the gas station, pumping gases. Someone who, you know is preaching from. [00:46:18] Speaker A: A pulpit, you know, that was. [00:46:20] Speaker B: Oh, go ahead. No, go ahead. [00:46:22] Speaker A: I was, I was gonna say that, you know, I remember growing up, you know, it was something, you know, they called it backsliding, which was a total loss of salvation. And it used to scare the snot out of me as I first came to the Lord because they would. They would say, hey, you can backslide. But here's the thing. No one could explain it to me. They would just say, okay, one day you're noticing you're doing some bad things and you're doing more bad things. And then one day you wake up and you realize that you're in a back slidden state and you're from God, you've lost your salvation, so you have to get saved all over again. And that's kind of what it was modeled to me. And, you know, their argument, of course, was going to the, you know, the, the prodigal son, right? That their argument was, okay, you know, he. He squandered all of his inheritance and he went off and. And he lost everything. And then he ended up finding himself with pigs and, and his father. The whole time they were like, okay, well, you know, the father was waiting on him and waiting on him until finally he came back and it was a picture of him getting saved again. But I had a pastor, actually, one of our mentors, actually said this. That whole time that young man was in that pig pen, he never stopped being his son. [00:47:56] Speaker B: Right? [00:47:56] Speaker A: He never stopped being a son. But at the same time, there was a choice to leave and there had to be a choice to come back. So the father, the whole time was opening his arms up to him, but there had to be a decision for him to leave and a decision to come back. And so it was. But it was a very. They weren't even like, putting it that clearly. It was just like, okay, you lost everything, you're with the pigs, and you have to get saved again. [00:48:25] Speaker C: I love the parent. I love the parent example. You know, you don't stop loving your kid. [00:48:30] Speaker B: Right? [00:48:30] Speaker C: Right. You keep loving your kid and your kid, you know, and I guess you hope they turn back around. But, you know, like you said, the choice to leave, the choice to come. [00:48:39] Speaker B: Back, I guess my. My two fundamental problems are this. Number one, you have to establish when. What's the point where too far is too far. Right. Like, exactly. [00:48:52] Speaker A: That was never clear. [00:48:53] Speaker B: There's no. It's not in Scripture. There's no point where it's like, well, if you, you know, like James. James 2 is very clear that if you stumble over one part of the law. [00:49:04] Speaker A: What? [00:49:05] Speaker B: You're guilty, right? Yeah. If you stumble over one part of the law, you're guilty of breaking all of it. So. So there is no clear point to me where someone can say point in Scripture, at least I haven't seen it yet where. Where someone can say, well, this is the point where you've gone too far, too far. Which is why I struggle with. Now you're not even. Listen, even the idea of coming back. Right. Becomes a workspace salvation. [00:49:38] Speaker A: Absolutely. Yeah. So. [00:49:41] Speaker B: So it's. It's two works based for me. That's. That's one of the main, you know, issues that I have for it is. Is how far. [00:49:50] Speaker C: How many times have. Joe, how many times have you rededicated your life? [00:49:54] Speaker A: Well, when I was like, every Sunday. [00:49:57] Speaker C: I know. Every song. I know. Here we are at church. Right. I mean, like, I never stopped going to church. [00:50:04] Speaker A: But, you know, I mean, it's not. [00:50:05] Speaker C: But I wasn't always doing the right thing. [00:50:07] Speaker A: Right. [00:50:07] Speaker C: But I'd never stopped going to. I never lost my faith. I just, you know, there's that point where, what does the world have to offer? [00:50:14] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:50:15] Speaker C: You know, and the thing is too. [00:50:16] Speaker A: Like, you know, you all were talking about that, that, you know, it can't be like, how far is too far? When Paul says in Romans 8 that I am convinced that neither death or life, neither angels or demons in the present of the fruit share or any other power can separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus. So. [00:50:34] Speaker B: Right. [00:50:34] Speaker A: I mean, if. If he initially demonstrated his love while we were sinning, this wasn't while we were like, okay, trying to make this relationship work. It was while I was in the midst of sinning. He died for me because his intent was to initiate and to reach me and to pull me out of hell. Right. It had nothing to do with me, but there. But. But it does kind of like that was never clear. Okay, where is too far. But then by saying, making that statement that there is a too far limits the love of God. [00:51:06] Speaker B: Right? Yep. [00:51:09] Speaker C: But again, why would you. I just. I just struggle that the whole. [00:51:12] Speaker B: Phil, what you're talking about is another. Another point that I'VE heard is because on the other side of it, there are people who are like, even if you denied Christ, you can't, you can't ever, ever lose your salvation. We got you to fill out your card and you said those magic words one time, and that's that you are, you're going to heaven whether you want to or not. And where I kind of get hung up is where it says in if indeed you continue in the faith. So there is this perseverance of the saints thing. And, and I don't think that this is like a. Well, in my humanity, I got mad about a situation or anything like that. It would have to be total rejection, willful rejection of Christ. And so the argument becomes this, and I don't have an answer for this. If you are truly in Christ, could you get to a place where you've rejected them? Because the one saved the once in grace, always in grace. People would say that if you ever have the capability of truly rejecting Christ, you were never in Christ to begin with. And that's possible. I mean, it's, it's possible. I, I guess I don't want to speak for the rest of my life, but I've experienced God so much. It would be really difficult. I would like to say impossible, but I don't want to be arrogant. It'd be really difficult to persuade me that God doesn't exist with what I've experienced with Him. Right. [00:52:58] Speaker A: I think it's almost a picture of Romans chapter one, when they were fearing the Lord, but then they started to worship the creation rather than the Creator. And then what did God do? He gave them over to the lust of their flesh and gave them over to a reprobate mind. And so at that point, and this might be too big of a question to continue this conversation tonight, but then you would probably maybe crossing over to blaspheming the Holy Spirit. Right. Because you knew his power. And if he gives you over. So because Paul here is saying, okay, you are marked in him, which is a. Which is guaranteeing our inheritance. So in order to walk away, that means I have to remove that mark somehow, which would look like, to me, like a rejection. And if so, if that's that total rejection, knowing his power and then completely rejecting him looks like a Romans Chapter one scenario to me, you know? [00:54:00] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:54:01] Speaker C: So you still have a choice, right? [00:54:04] Speaker B: Yeah, I guess. You know, it's a hard topic that I don't, I don't have a answer. [00:54:10] Speaker C: Yeah, I don't either. [00:54:11] Speaker A: Save man. You know, I just, I Put my. [00:54:13] Speaker B: Faith in the Lord, I think we should live. When I look at this passage in Colossians, right, I'm, I'm, I'm so grateful for John 10 and John 6 that really give me security and salvation. But when I look at Colossians 1, I, I go, you know what? Let me just live my life in a way that I know that I have to persevere in the faith and. [00:54:37] Speaker A: Continue in the faith. I mean, we see that all the time in Scripture, in Revelation. [00:54:41] Speaker B: Right. [00:54:41] Speaker A: If you continue, then you'll, you'll get the, the gift of, you know, the, the. The tree of life or going back to the Romans 11 passage. And I think in 22, this is so crazy. It kind of says exactly what Colossians says. Consider, therefore, the kindness and sternness of God. Sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Yeah, so there's kind of this. [00:55:10] Speaker B: There is a stipulation responsibility. [00:55:12] Speaker A: Right. [00:55:12] Speaker B: And you can't skip over those things. Going back to what we were saying at the beginning. You can't skip over the totality of Scripture. It might mean that you land in a place like I am, where I don't know totally what it means. What I do know is that I'm saved. And there's security in salvation. And whether or not you can or can't lose your salvation, just persevere in it, period. If we just persevere in it, you don't have to figure it out. You don't have to find out. That's how I want to live my life. [00:55:42] Speaker A: You know, I think people, like, make it so much about those questions. [00:55:46] Speaker B: Right. [00:55:47] Speaker A: And it creates so much damage when the reality is, let's focus. You know, we're, you know, we're positioned. You know, you're talking about progressive sanctification. We're positionally sanctified because what Christ did alone, we had nothing to do with that. And now our lives, that we work out our own salvation with fear and trembling unto Him. And I'm just striving to, to, to run this race that he has marked out for me. And I want to snatch as many people along the way as I can, man. [00:56:19] Speaker B: And just tell the truth. [00:56:20] Speaker C: There it is. [00:56:20] Speaker A: Am I man? I just think that kind of where I land is, you know, nothing can snatch you out of his hand. The Holy Spirit guarantees our inheritance, but at the same time, I just can't get past the fact that God will never violate the will of man. And if someone wanted to leave, I mean, you Know, but then again, you go back to the argument, you know, did they truly experience Christ? And it's kind of like the circle, you know what I mean? [00:56:52] Speaker B: But how could you go back? [00:56:53] Speaker A: I'm screwed up and I need him, and. And I honestly, I mean, I would be hopeless without him. And that's kind of. [00:57:00] Speaker C: How can you go back and not know that? You know, once you learn something. Right, We've talked about that. [00:57:05] Speaker B: Yeah, Right. [00:57:06] Speaker C: And, yeah, once you know, you know, once you know something, you know it. How can you know? Yeah, can't go back to not knowing. [00:57:12] Speaker B: That's right. But I think that's the difference between. And this is a whole. There's a conversation for another day. But you see the difference between the knowledge of Christ and the submission to the lordship of Christ. And so, you know, you see some people who grew up in the church, and they walk away. Well, I guess the question is, and I don't know, because I don't know the condition of anyone's heart. The question is, did you have a submission to His Lordship, or did you have the knowledge of who Jesus is, but never, never submitted to his lordship? Well, you know, I don't know. [00:57:52] Speaker A: I mean, even in scripture, I mean, you see, Paul. Paul gives us this beautiful picture, man. It's like, you know, he has this encounter in Damascus, and, you know, all of a sudden, the Lord's like, okay, Ananias, he's got to know how much he's got to suffer for me. And so Paul's ministry was all about suffering. This man who hated Christians, who was going, you know, just putting them in prison, stoning them. And then all of a sudden, Paul was so passionate. The closer Paul got, the less of Paul there was. That's the picture we get of Paul. Like, more in love he becomes. And the more he suffered. I mean, that doesn't make sense. I mean, he was like, you know, I am the. The least of all the disciples. And then he goes, oh, midway in his ministry, I'm the least of all the Saints. And then 15 years before the man died, he says, I'm a chief of sinners. Yeah, because he got more in love with Jesus. And I think that's a picture of when we truly have an encounter with Christ and we're living for him. The closer I get to him. I don't know, I'm sure you guys experienced this, but the closer I get to him, the more disgusting my sin looks. It's worth that. I don't want to go back there. There, you know, more that I'm like, I just want to go after him and throw all this garbage away. And, and I just couldn't imagine my life not saying that I don't sin, you know, but, but now I have an advocate with the Father. I have a God who forgives me and I, and I have that ability to. [00:59:22] Speaker B: But it makes you not want to sin, right? It makes you not, you know, the closer I get, I just, just want to shed it, you know, and. [00:59:31] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:59:32] Speaker B: More like Christ. Good stuff. [00:59:34] Speaker A: Yeah, man. [00:59:35] Speaker C: Heavy topic. [00:59:36] Speaker B: Heavy topic that, guys. [00:59:37] Speaker A: I was just like, yeah, no, I love it. [00:59:39] Speaker B: That's what this. [00:59:40] Speaker A: Hard questions in here and which. I love these questions, you know, I love talking about them and, and, and I just love the fact that we, again, I mean, coming together with these hard topics that, that people really get torn up about. But the reality is, man, I mean, we, we're family, you know, we can talk about this stuff and you know, and we should. Worst case scenario, you disagree. Okay. [01:00:04] Speaker B: Yeah. Wouldn't be the first time. We're still, we'll be the last. That's right. We're still brothers. [01:00:10] Speaker A: We're still brothers. [01:00:12] Speaker B: Yep. So. No, it's great stuff, Great topic. You know, the most important thing though, with all this, like we talked about is there's the, the things that are essential and things that are debatable and, and the main thing is that Jesus died for all of us while we were still sinners. Every one of us is a sinner. [01:00:34] Speaker C: Thank you, Lord. [01:00:35] Speaker B: Died for us while we were still sinners. And, and to, to have hope of eternal life with him. And it's just, it's submitting to his lordship, it's believing and confessing that Christ is Lord and, and his promise is that we will be saved because there's a, there's a real threat to our eternal life because of sin, which you know, leads to death, but Jesus paid for that. So if you, if you're on here, you're listening to this, you've made it this far, and God's tugging on your heart and you feel like you have never established a relationship with Christ. We would love to talk to you. So definitely shoot us an email with your contact info at info at thegatheringhouse Church. And we would love to talk to you about that. And it's not some magic prayer or anything like that. It's just about entering relationship with, with Christ. If you'd like to join us at church, we have church on Sunday mornings and all the, all the information is on our website, which is TheGatheringHouse Church Our church is in Royal Oak, Michigan. We, we would love to have you. We do not want to take you away from your home church though. So if you have a home church, definitely stay plugged in with with your. [01:01:59] Speaker A: But you can still visit. [01:02:00] Speaker B: But you can still visit. Our problem is once you come visit, you're kind of ours. [01:02:05] Speaker A: That's right. [01:02:05] Speaker B: So we don't want to steal you away from any church body, but we, we do. If you don't have a church right now, you're looking for a church, we would love to be your church family. So you can go again to TheGatheringHouse Church. That'll give you all the information for our service details. And if you are looking to try to catch more episodes of this kind of the main hub is on our website as well. TheGatheringHouse Church go to the podcast tab and as of whenever this comes out, there will now be two episodes. Boom. That are available. So do that. Email your questions or your comments to info at TheGatheringHouse Church and join us in our next episode where we will continue through our journey through the book of Ephesians, which is pretty exciting stuff. Amen and Lord willing, we will see you next time. Thank you guys for tuning in. Bless you guys.